The Underdog System Response

So after writing yesterdays post I logged on today to find a comment regarding what I had said. The following comment has not only got me to thinking it has also inspired me to write a response that was worthy of its own post. So here’s the comment that I received and below it is my response.

“The problem with the underdog system is it still doesn’t help if your faction is outnumbered. If you always face two warbands to your one, or two groups to your one, and so on it doesn’t matter how great the underdog system is you will never be able to flip a zone.

Possibly if the underdog system would speed up the zone dom timers, or remove them completely as an underdog you may have a chance if it would flip if you owned both keeps, and all four bo’s.

Of course it would probably lead to exploiting it so I doubt there is any fix except either a third faction of players, or somehow incorporating a third faction of npc’s like Aion.”


I do see where the poster is coming from. The current system however does already decrease the zone domination timers based on underdog points. Last night we pushed Order to 3 underdog points.

At 3 underdog points the following happens:

– BOs are instantly dominated
– Keeps have a 30 minute domination timer
– You only require 55 VPs to flip the zone
– Campaign pairings lock for 5 hours

So what your saying about speeding up the system for domination is already in place. And they even give you the option of flipping at 55 VP. Let me put it this way, if you control all the objectives in an RvR lake you already have 45 VPs. All that leaves is 10 VPs more to flip. Which you can pick up from PVE (5 VPs), Prior Tier (5 VPs), or Scenarios (25 VPs and tend to hang around 5 – 10 VP on their own all day anyway). looking at what I’ve written above it should not be very hard to push zones for the underdog.

Even at 2 Underdog the following is true:

– BOs have a 10 minute domination timer
– Keeps have a 45 minute domination timer
– You only require 60 VPs to flip the zone
– Campaign pairings lock for 4 hours

Although a little more work then 3 underdog points, the campaign is still much more easily pushed by the losing realm. If you have all the keeps and you cap all the bos in under 15 minutes, the other realm can’t take a BO back to stop the flip. This is because BOs don’t unlock for 15 minutes even though they are dominated in 10 minutes.

Now I do understand that a 3rd faction would be ideal but at this point I don’t ever expect to see one introduced to WAR. So I’ll leave it at that.

Now to address the posters original point. I deat with being the underdog from the start of the game until  September of last year when the numbers appeared to have evened out. Going from the Order zerg on Azazel to the Order zerg on Volkmar  I was always fighting an uphill battle. Now at times it sucked but we still fought back. The one thing this did however was to unify our realm.

Being the underdog takes a different mentality and requires  working with everyone no matter what your opinion of them may be. All the players on our side were battle hardened, and had the ability to play at a higher skill level than the majority of the Order. This was extremely noticeable when you played scenarios while pugging. The higher skill level and organization of the average Destro allowed us to fight off greater numbers and in the end be the first realm to kill the King.(Karl is to my left cowering)

Karl is to my left

Now that said I do understand being outnumbered is a problem but in reality that is always going to be the way things are in an Orvr environment. Whether its 2 realms or 3 there will always be times when 1 realm out numbers the rest. What I do however think would be interesting would be 5 realms. It would require lots of people but it would also give you more fronts to fight on. As well it would require more diplomacy between the realms. But that’s for another day.

In the end I think a lot of what happens in WAR boils down to the mentality of its players. By going into the lakes believing you can’t make a difference you put yourself at a disadvantage. More battles are lost due to a negative perception and low moral than any other factors. Not to say the same can not be said for underestimating an enemy or being overconfident. When a player believes that he or she is going to lose they will undoubtedly lose. Take for example seeing a premade in a scenario when you are pugging. The first thought that crosses most peoples minds is we’re done for. It’s a mentality like that that immediately puts you at a disadvantage.

Now often I find that bad odds can be overcome by using good tactics and communication. By thinking about what you are doing and not running in blindly your odds of winning are significantly increased. By communicating with your group you keep everyone focused and often times they stick together more. Good tactics such as hitting the tail of the zerg when you can’t fight them head on or fighting from the high ground will usually lead to great battles. While often times this will cause you to out kill your opponents and wipe. Sometimes the opposite will happen you will wipe your opponents.

All in all it is difficult to fight especially when out numbered in Orvr. Sometimes it is very hard to compete with the zerg other times the zerg is blinded by freenown and they pay for it. Playing smart and fighting around the zerg is often your best bet and will generally lead to a great RvR experience.  So if your losing in the lakes get into a group and go try a new strategy it just might work.


One thought on “The Underdog System Response

  1. Exactly what I meant with the comment under the previous post. It all depends on the players and no intricate system for boosting the underpopulated realm will help if the players aren’t willing to fight back.

    Good post. 🙂

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